Intro (Mike) - more details on slides; spotty notes here:

Developer-minded specifications - there's already a nice document on the theory. Point is aid to implementation, not discussing theory.

Lots of applications work with MRS. Would be nice to have an external specification rather than source code for those who are implementing something new and want to make sure that it's correct.

Mike started MrsRfc page after the last summit; thanks Rebecca and Stephan for doing most of the work.

Request for comments => please edit the wiki page if you see errors.

Conceptual parts of an MRS, and then proposed serialization formats.

Discussion

Ann: I want to make a historical point that for DeepThought we made the decision that the xml format would be the standard specification. So there is a specification of what an MRS, RMRS, DMRS is in formal xml. In some sense that's what I'm working from. Dunno about the rest of you.

Mike: Displays DTD lingo/lkb/src/mrs/mrs.dtd. Should we base the others off of this?

Ann: If people agree.

Bec: One thing that came up is differences in when case is relevant for capitalization and when it isn't. CARG is case sensitive. RFC page has that info, but that's the only place that it is listed. Woodley pointed out that the RFC doesn't give rigorous specification about where whitespace is allowed. Important for implementation, particularly important when using symbols/strings to mean the same thing. Is white space significant here, is it allowed here, does it delimit fields? What I've got up there (MrsRfc) was reversed engineered, with some feedback from Woodley and oe. Case sensitivity and space sensitivity, while not very important bits of MRS, are necessary for the comparison of MRS.

Ann: White space is never going to be significant apart form inside something delimited by quotes, if we're going by the xml specification.

Bec: How you know when there's a span on the pred name. Can you get a space in there?

Ann: That's nothing to do with me; that's an addition. That's not part of the predicate name in the xml.

oe: I'll take ownership of that. As was suggested yesterday, I may have memory issues. We have at times said there are two exchange formats that we care about for MRSs: XML (aka MRX) and simple MRS. LOGON and [incr tsdb()] are big on the simple MRS format, because it balances human readability, computer parsability, and size. I'm more prepared to put effort there. Ann is more prepared to put effort into the XML format, I believe. So all is good.

Ann: I don't have any problems supporting the simple format, understand why it's there. It works in the LKB. From my perspective, questions about whitespace is a secondary discussion, since the XML says these things are different fields, not part of the predicate name. What's going on here is a way of packing something which is really a separate field into a single token from the perspective of the syntax.

Bec: Case?

Ann: XML strings are case sensitive.

Bec: What are predicate names? XML strings or not?

Ann: I'd be prepared to decide that were going to say that those things aren't case sensitive. I think CDATA is officially case sensitivity. There's a whole load of things there that are CDATA, and some of those are things we don't want to be case sensitive.

Oe: We should maybe separate the abstract syntax and the serialization. XML is closer to the abstract syntax (as a serialization format). It's also about 10x bigger when writing it out; that's my main reservation. (And less human-readable.) Simple MRS format has an attractive balance of parsability and readability. Have to resign ourselves to overlaying any concrete syntax with conventions of interpretation. Not sure there's a way of saying these strings are not case sensitive in XML?

Ann: No, that's true. CDATA is for when you don't want to enumerate all those possible values. Do separate gpred and real pred.

Bec: Is that another one we need to agree on?

Oe: In the simple MRS the preds are not decomposed as they are in the XML, there are conventions: predicates starting with an initial underscore are 'real' predicates, where there are strict rules for the use of additional underscores; other predicates (first character is not an underscore) are free-format 'grammar' predicates. The conventions are probably written down in various places in the wiki, need to gather together.

Woodley: What about single quote preds? Exist in at least recent copies of matrix.tdl.

Oe: Strings in MRSs can be not quoted or double quoted. Not sure we ever had single open quote in simple MRS.

Dan: Example?

Woodley: 'null_coord_rel

Oe: That's a question about TDL strictly speaking. Should be the same as double quotes.

Ann: Tried to get rid of the single quote syntax because it was confusing (suggesting different name spaces where there aren't any). Was there in TDL from PAGE as a way of avoiding too much typing. Single quote stuff is up-cased, double quotes preserve case. Got rid of it in the ERG.

Oe: Recommend to all TDL authors, avoid single quote string representation.

Dan: Why not make it part of the software. Put a warning message when you see it. So we don't have to put a sticky note on our screens.

Mike: RELS is supposed to be a bag, but some representations are treating them as lists. Can we enforce that when things are bags we treat them as such?

Ann: Treat as a list when you can put a canonical order on them. Comparison relations requires a canonical order, puts them in a list.

Mike: If load MRSs from two different applications into comparison algorithm would be treated equivalently?

Ann: Whatever canonical ordering is chosen should be irrelevant. So if it turns out that things coming in from different sources behave differently, that's a bug.

Mike: If it's more efficient to treat them as a list, if you have some reproducible way to order them, then that's fine. Don't want to read things in and treat as a list as it is in the text, that's bad.

Ann: Reason for treating them as lists is for human readability. Preserve the original order for presentation, but not semantically relevant.

Mike: Same for HCONS lists and everything else.

Ann: A more interesting question is the variable naming, which should also be irrelevant, and can be a bit of a pain.

Mike: Is that the case in the LKB?

Ann: Um, probably.

Mike: I just look at them as a graph and don't check variable names.

Oe: Current MRS compatibility testing that the generator uses doesn't read anything into the order the bag or the names of the variables.

Yi: Same with C++ MRS library.

Ann: Always should have been the case that variable names are irrelevant for comparison. One or two cases where new variables are created that shouldn't come up, e.g., add 1000 --- could mess up that code by choosing perverse variable names but I hope people won't.

Oe: ICONS. How close are we to being able to declare the abstract syntax?

Bec: Like HCONS.

Ann: I see we have HIGH and LOW, but that's nothing to do with what's in the grammar. But you need a mapping from what you have in the grammar to that. They're always binary. We need a notion of distinguishing the two variables, don't care what attribute name we use. Need an enumeration of the possible relations; equivalent of hreln.

Dan: And that will slowly grow.

Ann/Dan: But we're okay so long as there is a specific list at any point in time.

Bec: So far the two end points are always variables?

Dan: Events of referential indices, not handles.

Oe: The DTD is currently not making that distinction.

Ann: That's something we might want to update. E.g., in HCONS only handles. My code has hard-wired constraints about that stuff. Would be nice to tighten the specification about that. It seems that the info-structure things will always be between two non-handle variables, at least one of which is an event. And it's possible that for anaphora resolution there may never be events involved, but not sure yet. It's a question of what you do with cases between sentences that you might want to try and resolve to an event.

Dan: Ex: We crashed our car Monday, it was the first disaster of a long, ugly week.

Woodley: Just individuals?

Bec: What about underspecified modifier attachment?

Dan: Yes, also just individuals.

Ann: Something that needs to be added to the spec is the underspecification relation between these.

Woodley: Why separate HCONS and ICONS?

Ann: Backwards compatibility, and different statuses in the theory. HCONS are constraints on the possible logical forms. ICONS I really want to talk about as additions to the logical form. I would tend to want to the LF with some extra equalities to represent the ICONS.

Oe: If we're going to update and make type distinctions on variables more explicit, there's the difficult case of p type variables --- underspecification between h and i (non-event). That could pose challenges.

Ann: What did we agree at Hank√ł?

Oe: Can be part of the description of an MRS but not an MRS.

Ann: Do we end up with ps in the output? What we're talking about here is the output format --- output of conversion format from what the grammar thinks of as an MRS, and what the MRS is. Do we see p there?

Bec: We do see u, could it be p?

Oe: Possible that an infinitival phrase has its ARG1 as p?

Dan: Maybe. We see a lot of these ps in the SEM-I, where we only say what we know.

Bec: So if it's unrealized?

Dan: If it's unrealized, it's not a handle, can't have unfilled holes. In the non-act of not filling it, you've resolved it to x. Not sure it makes sense to have p in the interchange format.

Francis: What about cases where we're checking for subsumption. Would we have a non-fully specified MRS? E.g., as the output of a transfer rule?

Ann: yes.

Oe: Formally, in an MRS a handle and a non-handle can never be in the same position.

SofiaMrsRfc (last edited 2012-07-04 07:01:29 by StephanOepen)

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